R U OK Day: Starting Conversations on Site
Our team shares practical ways to strengthen health and safety in construction through real conversations, listening and follow-up.
Episode six of Kapitol Conversations discussed the step up to PM roles honestly. Kapitol Joint CEO & Managing Director, Andrew Deveson, sat down with Jack Cunnington, an Assistant Project Manager running a data centre job with 170 workers on site, Andrew Monagle, a Project Manager working to complete stage two of the NEXTDC M3 Melbourne data centre, and Lisa Grantham, our Talent Acquisition Manager. The through line was simple. Getting the PM title is the easy part.
Deveson’s version is blunt. “I always used to think, to get to the next job you usually have to be the best at the one you’re in. The second you get that job as assistant PM, you are the worst assistant PM.” Jack knows the feeling. He was convinced he was the best project coordinator going around, moved up, and landed at the bottom of a new curve.
Monagle put his finger on why. “What made you an amazing SPC won’t make you a good APM. It’s always different skills that you have to keep building on.” Coordination rewards throughput and detail. Project management rewards judgement, sequencing and knowing which problem to pick up first.
Ask a new PM what’s hardest and it’s rarely the programme. “It’s probably been a bit tougher than I thought,” Jack said. He’d led teams through sport, but running a site means earning the respect of people older and more experienced than you. His instinct was to be the doer, in the weeds with the men and women on the job. That still matters, but part of the step up is standing back far enough to lead, and holding people to account when it’s needed.
Deveson learned the same lesson the slow way. As a young PM his rule was that he’d never ask anyone to do something he wouldn’t do himself, so when the job needed Sundays, he worked Sundays. He ended up at 75 hours a week and set an example he never meant to set. “The logic was well meaning, but I was probably setting a really bad example.” He was covering an experience gap with hours, and it put pressure on everyone around him.
That’s part of why project managers here work Monday to Friday, which isn’t the industry norm, and why bringing total hours down to 40 per week is a live goal we’re actively working hard to address rather than a marketing slogan.
Jack credits the phone more than any system. “I’d probably call different PMs multiple times a day to get their advice.” Around that sit the in-house specialists at head office in design, planning, quality and health and safety in construction, who also support the project team.
The alternative is common. Monagle watched PMs at a previous employer operate in direct competition, avoiding each other and occasionally one-upping each other behind people’s backs. Deveson admits he was that person in past roles before founding Kapitol. “I hated the other PMs more than I hated my competitors, because I thought I had to beat them for me to win.” As a business owner he sees it differently now. All projects need to be consistently delivered to the same high standards that Kapitol upholds and the key to that is having teams and leaders supporting each other collaboratively.
The PM job is still all about time, cost and quality in construction, and most of it comes down to deciding under pressure with incomplete information. “A lot of the time, even making a bad decision is better than making no decision,” Monagle said. “You learn from making the wrong call and figuring out what you’d do differently next time.”
That only holds if psychological safety is upheld and lived out everyday across the business. We share lessons learned across the business, including the calls that went the wrong way, and Jack says that’s exactly what makes him willing to decide. He’s never felt a decision would land back on him alone.
Deveson’s note for anyone heading further up: the problems stop having right answers. A build is close to maths. Strategy isn’t, and getting comfortable with that shift is its own skill.
Monagle’s path shows how that gets built. His first job here was M3 stage one, before most of the support functions existed, which meant working problems out first hand. Then came a project where his PM, Elliot, told him early he wouldn’t get in the way and let him get across all of it instead of a narrow APM lane. That’s what made leading M3 from start to finish feel manageable at 29.
Lisa sees the other side in interviews. People move for titles, when the better move is often coming in as an APM rather than a PM, with support around you, and getting promoted quickly from there. Our capability framework lets people self-assess and have that conversation with their manager through the year instead of waiting for a scheduled formal review.
If you’re looking for a role with a dynamic, forward-thinking and inclusive company, then Kapitol could be for you. To build better, we need the best. Do you have what it takes? Tell us and begin your Kapitol career today.
